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Nice guys finish last
Yes 46%
No 15%
In the middle of the pack 7%
Who cares 30%

Votes: 13

 Nice guys

 Author:  Topic:  Posted:
Nov 06, 2001

Always finish last but at least they can feel morally superior about it.

Poll: nice guys finish last...


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Nice guys? Or unassertive, passive-aggressive (5.00 / 2) (#1)
by Adam Rightmann on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 08:39:18 AM PST
sorts that expect happiness to be handed to them with no work at all, on the grounds that they don't kick kittens and puppies. There is a difference, though you ahve to get up and away from your computer to figure it out.

A. Rightmann

Hit the spot (none / 0) (#2)
by nobbystyles on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 08:54:19 AM PST
Cheers. There's me wallowing in self pity. Just being inoffensive ain't enough...

You have several options (5.00 / 1) (#5)
by Adam Rightmann on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 09:20:58 AM PST
1) Write a whinging pity-fest for". There seem to be a few sorts there who are upset that the women they know show little desire for a meek, bland man who won't raise a finger to fight for them.

2) Write a controversial column for here, advocating genetic engineering to raise women who prefer meek, bland, inoffensive men.

3) Toughen up, value your self. On some level, women will test prospective mates, knowing intuitively that a partnered life is hard and strenous, and not wanting to waste their time and body on someone who can't handle the long haul. Being married and raising two children is the hardest things I've done, it pales in comparison to getting a BS in Engineering, or writing a book in your free time.

There's a word for children who's parents were too nice to them, brats. A good parent is tough but loving, and not adverse to a little physical discipline at times. Keep in mind the enormous sacrifices a woman must make to carry and raise a child, and you will understand why they want a good but tough man to be there with them.

A. Rightmann

blaming the victim (none / 0) (#6)
by nathan on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 09:51:17 AM PST
Not all nice guys are wimps. Some of them are people who, eg, believe lies because they don't want to believe the worst of their S. O.'s. Some of them have girlfriends (or boyfriends) who mislead them about what they feel, professing love while really waiting for something better to come along.

Of course, there are lots of passive-aggressive idiots out there too. It's worth remembering, if you're of the g**kish persuasion, that work can also be a way of avoiding life. How much of that work is necessary or important? How much is just wankery?

On a slightly different topic, Mr. Rightmann, you've several times talked about how hard it is to get an engineering degree. I'll admit it's not easy to get, but do you think it's any harder a degree than some others?

Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

Deluded into wilshful thinking myself (none / 0) (#7)
by nobbystyles on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 09:56:25 AM PST
And get angry when the object of my dreams wishes don't coincide with mine. And getting upset about it because I 'deserve' it because I am such a nice guy....

But you're not a nice guy (none / 0) (#26)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Nov 7th, 2001 at 12:57:01 AM PST
<P>You're an immature tit, and no, you don't deserve it!

I know this (none / 0) (#29)
by nobbystyles on Wed Nov 7th, 2001 at 03:01:03 AM PST
So don't tell me what's new....

Yes, it's harder than most (none / 0) (#8)
by Adam Rightmann on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 09:58:39 AM PST
my final semester of college, I took 18 credits of 400 level courses (the most advanced level undergraduate courses for the UKians in the house). I figure I got about 4 hours of sleep a night on average, and pulled several all nighters a week.

My degree had the most credit hours required, something like 147 in 4 years.

I think that if I had taken business or history, my course load would have beena lot lighter.

Other engineering disciplines are hard too, I'm not disputing that. but compared to business, or elementary ed, nutrition, history, etc, engineering is far harder. I don't really know abotu comp sci, as it wasn't as big in the '80's.

A. Rightmann

other degrees (none / 0) (#9)
by nathan on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 10:14:31 AM PST
I have no opinion about humanitites degrees, but I have a music degree, for which I worked 90 to 100 hours per week for four years. I didn't need to actually work that hard, but in order to have professional qualifications (ie, to be able to play at a professional level,) I practiced my major instrument four to eight hours per day, as well as practicing keyboard skills and conducting, and writing music (I have majors in theory and comp as well as the applied subjects.)

I was only in engineering about a year, but I did find it to be pretty hard. If engineering is as hard as music, I guess I can understand engineers being cocky about it.

Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

Perhaps engineers would be less cocky and arrogant (none / 0) (#10)
by Adam Rightmann on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 10:23:04 AM PST
if proficiency with Fortran and diffyQ impressed the women as much as guitar playing and piano playing, and if the gender balance in engineering was closer to that in music. What I am saying is that engineering programs have little compensation other than the satisfaction of mastering a grueling regime.

Good luck with the music. I have a modest amount of musical talent, playing baritone and trombone in high school and going to various all county outings, but I never had the burning desire to practice more than 20 minutes a day, rendering me entirely unsuitable for a career as a musician. It's a demanding regime, and the material rewards aren't extravagant, but then so is any artistic field.

A. Rightmann

clarification (none / 0) (#11)
by nathan on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 10:43:13 AM PST
If you're learning to play the guitar and the piano in order to dick around and impress girls, you shouldn't be a music major. And if Fortean and Schenkerian analysis impressed girls, there'd be a lot more theory nerds. As with any other field, serious work in music requires quasi-monastic discipline.

I'm sorry you found your engineering work so draining and so little compensation, at the time at least. This is partly why I'm unsympathetic toward business-school types. "Oh, you could only go drinking and dancing on the weekends?"

Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

whats the difference (5.00 / 1) (#3)
by alprazolam on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 09:01:51 AM PST
Either way their women and their money are there for the taking.

Sounds like another fan of (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 09:06:00 AM PST
Girlfriend Stealer

Re: Nice guys (none / 0) (#12)
by zikzak on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 11:09:32 AM PST
Have you considered posting a diary announcing that you are accepting applications for a wealthy wife?

Hmmm (none / 0) (#13)
by CaptainZornchugger on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 11:54:03 AM PST
That worked, I take it? What's her name? When do we get to meet her? When's the wedding? How much does she make/have?

Well (none / 0) (#16)
by zikzak on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 04:28:29 PM PST
Not exactly. hauntedattics expressed interest, but I think she was a bit too demanding about the detailed job description. chloedancer's replies would seem, on the surface, to not be encouraging, but I think deep down she really felt something for me and just wasn't sure how to best express those complicated emotions. Nevertheless, I'm afraid I couldn't shack up with someone who is uncertain of themselves and/or their emotions.

So the search continues, but I am utterly confident that my methods are well suited to the task and will result in a marriage before the end of the year.

Utter loathing and undisguised contempt. (none / 0) (#17)
by chloedancer on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 07:39:23 PM PST
That's how best to summarize my feelings re: your "marriage of (your) convenience" proposal. Please don't delude yourself into thinking that this constitutes any degree of emotional attachment beyond the fact that you're the perfect object for my projected scorn... Suffice it to say that your proposal served only as a reinforcement for my now-cherished "Been there, done that, and would rather joyfully commit self-immolation than repeat that mistake" rule. Spousal Unit #2 beat you to the punch, I'm afraid, so there's nary a chance for the likes of you.

But we can still be friends, can't we? XOXOX -- cd.

A misunderstanding (5.00 / 1) (#19)
by zikzak on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 09:28:43 PM PST
But we can still be friends, can't we? XOXOX

You seem to have me confused with one of the other diary posters. I think I'm more likely to have a relationship end with, "...and I hope you fucking die you heartless piece of shit!"


Just to clarify (none / 0) (#20)
by zikzak on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 09:30:27 PM PST
I would expect to be on the receiving end of that quote, btw.

And to think that you almost had me... (none / 0) (#21)
by chloedancer on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 10:05:29 PM PST
until you had to go and clarify this -- the implication otherwise gave me my first true laugh of the day, really! The sheer insouciance was absolutely sublime and completely above reproach -- yum!

You should know by now that the first rule for succeeding in your quest to "marry up" is as follows: The more unattainable you appear, the more you'll be desired. Just let me know if you want any other tips re: how to get them wealthy, wretched women following you to down the path to their own demise, m'friend...

A suggestion (none / 0) (#33)
by hauntedattics on Thu Nov 8th, 2001 at 03:16:06 PM PST
Maybe you could invest in a big billboard advertising your proposal. I think it worked a few years ago for a guy in Texas.

Nice guys... (5.00 / 2) (#14)
by manifold on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 12:20:15 PM PST
... don't try and steal people's girlfriends.

what if (none / 0) (#15)
by alprazolam on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 01:56:43 PM PST
they're stealing them from assholes, Mr. Black-and-White?

Well then... (5.00 / 1) (#27)
by manifold on Wed Nov 7th, 2001 at 02:03:51 AM PST
... that would be a different situation entirely wouldn't it Mr Smarty Pants. But it's not this one.

True (none / 0) (#30)
by nobbystyles on Wed Nov 7th, 2001 at 03:14:03 AM PST
Cos her man's a nice guy and likes me. It's all basically a mess of my own making. I don't normally get this carried away. I mean I have never tried to steal a bird off any of my mates before.

And I was trying to get with being a platonic friend but she's a really stunning, intelligent girl so I had real problems with that. Fortunately I am over this and can behave in a normal manner but it's been a bit of struggle....

Are you (none / 0) (#32)
by Merekat on Thu Nov 8th, 2001 at 08:24:26 AM PST
trying to get yourself in trouble again?

Newsflash (none / 0) (#34)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Nov 9th, 2001 at 05:01:09 AM PST
<P>He doesn't like you.

sure we do (none / 0) (#24)
by jsm on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 11:58:35 PM PST

... the worst tempered and least consistent of the editors
... now also Legal department and general counsel,

Fair enough (none / 0) (#28)
by nobbystyles on Wed Nov 7th, 2001 at 02:58:32 AM PST
So I am not quite as nice as I like to think. Anyway she wasn't going out with him when I first met her in the club and I didn't know she was on the rebound from the bunny-boiler. And I didn't know her domestic arrangements. Or your relationship with her.

Look I just this diary up because I wanted to get myself out of this self pity mood. And it's fucking worked. I am honestly cool with it all.

first last whats the difference? (none / 0) (#18)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 08:03:50 PM PST
I don't see why everything has to be a race. Sometimes it's better to just take a step back and look around. Ask yourself why am I running?

Smell some roses. Eat a little cheese. Sip a little wine.

It's like Garth Brooks said:
"I'm in a hurry to get things done;
All I ever do is run and run and run;
All I really need to do is have some fun;
I just want to live until I die;"

I think Garth's message really applies very well in your situation and if you think about it I'm sure you'll agree too.

With him, as always... (none / 0) (#22)
by SpaceGhoti on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 11:18:34 PM PST
Quoting wisdom from country music is like seeking advice from fortune cookies. Frequently tasteless and invariably urbane.

A troll's true colors.

Tasteless AND urbane? (none / 0) (#23)
by elenchos on Tue Nov 6th, 2001 at 11:50:00 PM PST

I do, I do, I do
--Bikini Kill

fortune cookies (none / 0) (#25)
by error27 on Wed Nov 7th, 2001 at 12:42:57 AM PST
You should look at the message and not the medium.

Perhaps fortune cookies are not good enough for your less "urbane" tastes. But in my experience most fortune cookies are surprisingly insightful. You may not always like what they say but you should still consider it very carefully.

That's the problem I see with kids these days. They tend to believe or disbelieve everything they here because of the medium. "I read this on so it must be true." Or "I read this on a fortune cookie so I don't have to take it seriously." This isn't the way that the world works, people should try determine the merit of what they are told based on the content and not on the medium.

are you claiming (none / 0) (#31)
by alprazolam on Wed Nov 7th, 2001 at 09:47:42 AM PST
that Garth Brooks produces country music? Hank Williams and Willie Nelson might disagree with you there.


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