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For the sake of the moral welfare of our children, Amreican citizens should be forced to convert to which of these religions ?
Scientology 12%
Islam 9%
Ba'haiism 6%
Judaism 3%
Orthodox (Eastern) Catholicism 9%
The Unification Church of Sun Yung Moon 3%
Mormonism 6%
Hinduism 0%
Zen Buhddism 46%
Chinese Style Ancestor worship 3%

Votes: 32

 Christianity isn't working in the USA; Is Islam the answer ?

 Author:  Topic:  Posted:
Jul 18, 2001
Since its inception, the USA has been a solidly religious country. The original settlers brought Christianty with them, along with their modest posessions when they set sail on the 'The Mayflower'.

Most of our laws have their basis in the 10 commandments, indeed our currency even bears the legend 'in God we trust'.

For many centuries, Christianity has been the dominant religion and culture, with all that that entails. Nowadays many people are starting to take a fresh look at their religious beliefs, in an attempt to reconcile them with the modern multi-racial multi-sexuality culture we live in today.


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They are starting to question the fundamental Christian beliefs that have served us so well over the years, in the light of certain events which seem to indicate that Christianity is no longer working.

Recent incidents like this one, this one and this one demonstrate that Christianity is failing us as a nation when it comes to instilling even the most basic moral values.

The question raised by all this, is should the USA continue trying to mold Christianity into something relevant to today's depraved modern world, or is it time to try something else ?

For me, there are really only two great religions which are up to the task:

On the one hand, there is the modern religion of Scientology which would seem to sit well with the technology driven world we live in. It offers a full audit of one's personality, and seems to be quite professional, and up with the times. Probably quite appealing to 'geeks' and 'nerds'.

On the other hand, the moral collapse of this great nation of ours can possibly only be saved by a religion which is less forgiving, and a bit more prepared to lay down moral standards than Christianity. That religion is Islam.

Scientology seems at first sight like a good choice but I think Islam pips it at the post (primarily due to its hard line on criminals).

Now, it might seem like a very bold step to change your religious belief systems just like that at the drop of a hat. But think about it. 90% of Americans simply adopt the religion of their parents, with no critical thought process whatsoever. You would not buy a ford car simply because your Father drove one. And you certainly would not wear a dress (if you were male) just because your mother wore one. It is simply inertia.

I propose that a law should be introduced, making Islam the official religion of the USA. And that steps be taken toward introducing a system of 'Sharia' to our prisons and courts.

I know some people might find it heavy going at first, but is is abundantly clear the USA has lost its moral compass. Forced conversion to Islam by all American citizens would seem to offer an expeditious and attractive way out of our spiritual and cultural vaccuum.

Imagine how many current moral debates could be solved by Islamic punishment. Those criminals at NAPSTER would be among the first to suffer forced amputation for theft.

I could go on, but I am more interested in what YOU have to say on this very imporatant issue.


Bahaism (none / 0) (#1)
by Anya on Tue Jun 26th, 2001 at 01:53:14 PM PST
I once went to a meeting of the Bahai's in Edinburgh. Now don't laugh, I was living with some dreadful Hari Krishnas at the time, and I was bored this particular evening, so me and another chap accompanied them to this Bahai meeting.

I was kind of hoping that it would be a nice, easy religious cult (preferably one with easy females), but to my shock they were all upstanding moral citizens, but without the holier than thou attitude that plagues christianisty. I realised this when my friend lit a joint during a musical recital in their headquarters (someone's flat), and everyone else in the room but me politely refused. Although they did seem somewhat bemused that people were smoking evil, satanic mind altering drugs in their headquarters, not once did they tell us to stop, which was rather nice of them.

Later a nice young man played the violin, making the most awful noise I think I have ever heard. He was roundly applauded, and asked by the leader of this branch of Bahai's how long he had been interested in dissonant music, to which he replied 'I'm not, I have only been playing the violin for a month'. That they didn't tell him he was crap, and instead hugged him in a pure, upright manner speaks well of them.

This is not to say that they were entirely asexual. The leader of this branch of Bahais managed to attract all sorts of females, who breathlessly told me that they thought he was 'wonderful'. Where they got this from I don't know, he appeared a bit of a nancy boy, and had disconcertingly large teeth. Maybe it was his vow of celibacy that knocked their socks off.

After this rather awful night, I never returned again, because quite frankly I am a sinner at heart. However, my hippy Hari Krishna flatmates remained entranced - oftentimes I would come home to find them meditating, or counting beads, or chanting, or shouting 'RAM!' (a sacred word of some sort, designed to release inner evils. Never quite got that), or solemnly reading the Bhagavadghita (sp?) whilt making bean casserole.

So I think Bahai, with its tolerance for all ways of life, religion and thought, would do very well for those Americans, with their judgemental ways.

Just as long as it never makes any inroads here, that's fine by me.

Stars! Stars! And all eyes else dead coals.

Christianity is not the answer (5.00 / 2) (#2)
by seventypercent on Tue Jun 26th, 2001 at 07:20:30 PM PST
There are two things that I know to be true: The United States has a disproportionate amount of Jesus worshippers compared to the rest of the civilized world, and the United States has (by far) the highest rate of violent crime. This begs the question: if Jesus worship is supposed to make one moral, and if the death penalty that the Jesus worshippers espouse is supposed to serve as a deterrent, why is the rate of violent crime so high here? England, with its (largely) irreligious population, has one-eighth the rate of violent crime that the US does. Japan, where Jesus worship is nonexistant, has less violent crime than virtually anywhere else in the world.

I think it can safely be said that Jesus worshippers who claim to have a monopoly on morality are clearly talking out of the holes in their hands. Even here in the States, the regions that tend to have the most Jesus worship (the Deep South) also tend to have the highest crime rates and the highest rates of things like poverty and teenage pregnancy. You are absolutely right; Christianity is not working. The question then becomes: What to replace it with?

I tend to lean towards Shatnerology. It is a peaceful religion, one that does not instruct its followers to butcher entire kingdoms or races of people. It is likely to be true. Also, the letters in "William Shatner" can be re-arranged to spell "Animal Whistler." All of this, I believe, spells certain doom for Christianity (and I would say the same about Islam.) If America were led to Shatnerology, all of our problems (including crime, road rage, Tom Green, etc.) would vanish without a trace.

Red-blooded patriots do not use Linux.

Perhaps Shaterology holds the key. (none / 0) (#3)
by dmg on Tue Jun 26th, 2001 at 08:28:54 PM PST
My take on this is that the Americans as a whole are becoming _more_ violent than before, and therefore need a more violent religion to go with it. Islam (as it is practiced in Afghanistan by the Taleban) seems to be the way forward.

It has always puzzled me why America is so violent. It does not fit well with my experiences there. I have felt uneasy in many areas of the UK, but not very often in the USA, and I have been to plenty of big cities there (including parts of south central LA and Liberty City, Miami). The UK seems to have an underlying aggression that I have not felt in the US. Londoners in particular always seem to be on the verge of violence. Perhaps its the warm beer, or the endless grey skies. Who knows.

time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration.
-- MC Hawking

I respectfully disagree (none / 0) (#4)
by ttm on Fri Jun 29th, 2001 at 09:11:02 PM PST
dmg, I think there is a middle ground. That of the agnostic. Which for all intens an purposes is just a scared atheist. This may be the future.


Take all things in moderation, Including moderation.

Or maybe (none / 0) (#5)
by dmg on Sat Jun 30th, 2001 at 06:14:02 AM PST
Dice Living has something to offer...

time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration.
-- MC Hawking

A few useful resourfces (4.00 / 1) (#6)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jul 18th, 2001 at 08:16:09 AM PST
It might help to read some of these useful resources, before dismissing this idea out of hand:

  • What kind of Muslim are you ?
  • Demystifying Islamic justice
  • Islam City

  • All the above sites are good starting points. Pay particular attention to how salvation can be achieved through DEEDS. Unlike the in Christian religion.

    As Christian Americans, we should realise that Islam is the logical next step for us in our quest for ultimate Truth. But in the meantime, simply adopting some of the practices of Muslims (e.g. women covering up, stricter alcohol laws, harsher punishments from criminals etc) we can make America a more pleasant and moral place to live.

    You're all wrong. (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by SpaceGhoti on Wed Jul 18th, 2001 at 08:47:25 AM PST
    The Church of the SubGenius, is the answer to all our questions. The rest of you fools are just stumbling about in the darkness.

    A troll's true colors.

    Freethinking and personal reponsibility vs. dogma (none / 0) (#9)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jul 18th, 2001 at 02:19:00 PM PST
    First off, many of the founding fathers were not Christians, but Deists, and if you remember, freedom of religion was kind of a big issue. Sure, a lot of support for that had to do wth the variety of Christian denominations, but the American tradition of freethinking has always been strong.

    I can't speak for how this has been in the past, but ironically, my experience is that the majority of self-styled freethinkers today are just as dogmatic as any religious zealot. I grew up in this tradition, atheist and judgemental of others' "unenlightened" beliefs until i realized this was just as arrogant as any other blind believer -- how the hell can i *know* there's no god? And it was mean, to boot.

    I would suggest that a re-invigoration of the freethinking tradition in the sense of each person taking personal responsibility to examine their own experiences and beliefs would go a long way to increasing human sanity. And this tradition does not require anyone to throw out their existing beliefs wholesale, unless they come to that conclusion themselves, based on their own understanding. It's also easier to respect others' beliefs when you see them doing the self-examination thing.

    To me, the big problem is dogmatism itself, and has evolved over maybe ten thousand years (read Walter Wink's The Powers That Be, or Daniel Quinn's Ishmael, and indirectly Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel). Over time, successful cultures are those that sustain dogma that supports hierarchical society, and defines other people as different in a way that makes it okay to kill them.

    Note that this success for the society as a whole can come even if the people in it are on average less happy than the people in the societies they're destroying.

    Oh give me a break! (none / 0) (#10)
    by Orion Blastar on Thu Jul 19th, 2001 at 10:36:50 AM PST
    Why blame Christianity? Not everyone is a Christian and not every Christian follows the rules as they should.

    Your examples are bad ones, do you have proof that these people are Christians, or that they did this behavior because it is the way Christianity is or because Christianity failed them? It is more to the point that these things happened because they were sinners and did not follow the rules of Christianity if they were indeed Christians.

    Is this yet another round of Christianity bashing? It seems that my religion gets bashed around quite a bit. We get blamed for a lot of things. But are these blamings valid, or just mindless rantings by non-Christians to put Christianity down?

    Our founding fathers of the US fought hard to seperate church and state. Not all politicians are Christian either. Prayer is out of public schools and violence is at a high for schools as well. Co-incidence or not?

    No it is more like the rejection of Christianity is the main cause of these things. People want the freedom from being responsible for their own actions and don't want to answer to G_d or any other higher authority. Once responsibility goes out the door, so does respect for others and themselves. Then that is when they start being hurtful to others and causing all kinds of problems.

    If Christianity isn't working for you, make sure that you are following all the rules and understand what it is to be a Christian. I am not talking about only thinking about yourself and then thinking you can make up for the other things by going to church every Sunday and then telling G_d you are sorry for being a jerk/jerkette the other 6 days of the week. You have to think about others, help others out, keep the Ten Commandments, obey the Golden Rule, etc. That is just too hard for some people to do. I don't know why, but it just is. My advice is to keep trying to change yourself into becoming a better Christian so you stop giving the rest of us a bad name.

    Thank you, and G_d bless you!

    I don't know how this ended up in my mailbox! (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by Nist on Thu Jul 19th, 2001 at 11:35:07 AM PST
    I don't know how this ended up in my mailbox!

    I knew the names were familiar though, and thought I would do the courtesy of passing this personal message along... I only wish I had your e-mail address dmg, so I didn't have to subject you to any undue humiliation by posting this publicly. But you are not listed, and as a good person, I have no choice but to forward misdirected mail to it's intended recipient


    From: The Landover Baptist Salvation Evaluation Committee
    (Subcommittee for the Irretrievably Lost, Whether Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, Scientologists or
    Unrepentant Serial Killers)

    To: dmg

    Re: Your Salvation

    As the vessel of the Lord's perfect message of boundless wrath and
    annoyance with His imperfect creations, the matter of your wistful hopes of
    salvation was brought before the full board of the Landover Baptist
    Salvation Evaluation Committee on this very day.

    After a suitable time for contemplation, no matter how seemingly brief,
    it was determined by unanimous consent of all True Christians present
    the following findings of fact:

    1.   You are a thoroughly annoying person;

    2.   Your presence in God's Glory would make it extremely difficult for
    "Heaven" to live up to its name; and

    3.   Therefore, you have been damned to an everlasting Hell, to have your
    flesh gnawed at by voracious hoofed demons.

    The Lord has specifically asked us to remind you that your consignment
    to perpetual torture at the hands of deranged beasts of His making
    should in no manner be construed as any indication that the Lord has, by
    either design or omission, discontinued His unconditional love of you.
    And, further, you are not to construe our relief in the knowledge that
    we shall not be sharing God's Glory with someone as appallingly wretched
    as you (or the look of sublime delight that flashes across our
    otherwise inscrutable faces when we contemplate the agony of your much deserved
    destiny) as diminishing our love for you as True Christians.

    Wishing you a speedy descent,

    Mrs. Betty Bowers, Chairlady & America's Best Christian

    Here is a message from bc to you -
    I can't belive how low you've sunk! I shall miss you in eternity my
    friend. I only wish that it was not too late for you to recant your sin
    and join me in eternal glory. Alas, I know you now for the heathen you
    are, and I will hide my tears as I watch you burn in hell.

    Wow! Such strong words! Again, I hate to be the messanger here! If it makes any differance, I don't think your soul is utterly unretreivable, and I will pray for you daily that you find salvation, or at least comfort in the fires of hell. Truly, I had no idea you were such a heathen till now!
    Demonstrating Christ "in" us,

    Like you care what I have to say anyway.

    Baha'i (none / 0) (#12)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sat Dec 1st, 2001 at 05:18:11 AM PST
    <I>"After this rather awful night, I never returned again, because quite frankly I am a sinner at heart. However, my hippy Hari Krishna flatmates remained entranced - oftentimes I would come home to find them meditating, or counting beads, or chanting, or shouting 'RAM!' (a sacred word of some sort, designed to release inner evils. Never quite got that), or solemnly reading the Bhagavadghita (sp?) whilt making bean casserole."</I>

    hmm... I happen to be of the Baha'i Faith, and I don't know what the heck they were doing. The community I live in has never done anything like that.
    I personally voted for Baha'i. Since they beleive in unity of and in all religions, I think people that were converting would all beleive in at least a few aspects, and maybe grow into more of them. But I don't think we should force them into converting, it has to be their choice.


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